Interview with Dr. Vladimir Vlasenkov, Deputy Director of the Coordination Centre “Fusion – International Projects”

Mr. Vlasenkov, What is your role in the ITER project?

I am the deputy director of the "Fusion Centre" in Moscow. This organisation was established in order to help the FAAE coordinate the international activities related to ITER. The responsible ministry for ITER is Rosatom, the former ministry of Atomic Industry which is now called the FAAE, Federal Agency for Atomic Energy. After the ITER agreement will be signed on November 21, the Russian Domestic Agency will be established as the organization responsible for fulfilling our obligations.

And this Domestic Agency will be established where in Russia?

It is currently under extensive discussion where this domestic agency will be located. It will be either in the ministry or under the umbrella of the Kurchatov Institute. We have a number of institutes involved in the ITER activities. The major one is the Kurchatov Institute for Atomic Energy, the leading scientific institute. This is where all major tokamak programs were developed. But there is another institution called the Efremov Institute in St. Petersburg that is responsible for making hardware. These two organizations are candidates for the Domestic Agency besides the ministry itself. This question will be decided by the end of this year.

How many people are involved in fusion activities in Russia at the moment?

This is not an easy question. We have to face the fact that after Perestroika, in a process of changing the social system, little money was available for science. First the projects that guaranteed profits were developed. But now Russia is gaining money by selling oil and gas, and developing its national economy. And as prices for oil and gas are going up, we will invest more money for developing science. And so I hope that in the near future we will be able to subsidise the fusion programme to the extent to maintain our role as one of the leading countries in fusion. Because, as you know, we invented the tokamak, first of all, and demonstrated its potential as a candidate for a fusion power reactor.

Also it was Gorbatchov and Mitterand who came up with the idea of the ITER project?

Yes, indeed. But the main driving force for the ITER project was Academician Velikhov. It is my personal belief that without Academician Velikhov, there would be no ITER Project today. He worked at the Kurchatov Institute, was was former Vice President of the Russian Academy of Sciences, and a head of our national fuson programme. In 1956 Academician Kurchatov first made his proposal towards a broad, international collaboration in fusion. He realised that it is not possible to have a fusion power project of this size on a national basis only. It is too expensive and risky, and international cooperation helps to bring together the best professionals working in the field.

So in fact it was Velikhov who suggested to make the collective international effort now called ITER. Before ITER, there was INTOR in 1978.  I was at the IAEA, at that time working as first scientific secretary of that project. There were four partners Japan, Russia, EU and the US to create interactivities. That was exactly on the 24th of November 1978. Then it took about four years to come up with a conceptual design, but obviously the international situation was not favorable to go any further. Then, in 1985, ITER was created.

So we came a long way to be able to celebrate the signature this week.

Yes indeed! The signing of the ITER agreement is a turning point. Now we go from paper to hardware. Until now we have been producing only paper. Also, this is the first time money will be involved. Until now, there was no collective money. Money is only spent by each country on a voluntary basis. So, this is a date, a turning point, when dreams become reality. 

Which, I guess, doesn’t mean that all the problems are solved?

No, of course, first of all this is only the signature under the Agreement. Now the Agreement has to be ratified, which in the best case will occur in June. Only after that the project legally exists legally.

What about the interest in fusion, are there young scientists interested in this discipline?

We are trying hard, but again, people have to live on something and moneywise, it is not very attractive to be a scientist. In our country, it is still much easier to make money by selling beer in the street. By this you get ten times more. This is a strange situation, as these young people are highly educated but they get a salary that is hardly enough to live on. But I am convinced that this situation is going to change very soon.